Tour of Mountain View

[jbailey]

We took a tour of Mountain View with Leslie yesterday. It was nice to look around and see what was actually around here for shopping / things to do / how to escape to somewhere else. It looks like the biggest redeeming feature of MTV is that one can leave. It reminds me of Coquitlam. It's the last place we're considering outside of the city - but considering that we're not going to really be out partying in the next year, the crime rate is very low, and rent is sometimes half of what we'd pay, it's definetly worth considering. It also will keep the commute down to something reasonable (probably 15 minutes on a bike, almost too short).

Weird American thing of the day: Apparently for everything you need your SSN here. At home, the only people who are allowed to ask for the Canadian equivalent (SIN) are people who are going to pay you money. So a credit check can't require it. Your health card can't require it. Your driver's license can't require it. Angie not having one is going to get sticky in a few cases.

I actually walked just under 10,000 steps on Friday. I didn't bike because I wasn't feeling well, and it seems that the walk to the commuter train is somewhere between 2 and 3 thousand steps.

Comments

[redgirl.livejournal.com]

EVERYONE asks for your SSN here. I was always under the impression that it wasn't supposed to be used in the way that it is, but banks, etc. don't seem to care.

Side note: For some reason, it really bothers me when people ask for it by saying "can I have your social please?" I'm not quite sure why that bugs me so much, but it just gets under my skin.

[jbailey.livejournal.com]

Huh, weird. Oh well, I'll get used to it, I guess. =/

I hope the honeymoon went well. Congrats again on getting married!

[(Anonymous)]

Side note: For some reason, it really bothers me when people ask for it by saying "can I have your social please?" I'm not quite sure why that bugs me so much, but it just gets under my skin.

That one bugs me a bit, but it really drives me crazy when people ask for your "sosh"; "name and sosh please". I think in both cases those bug me because they serve as a reminder that the name "social security" has no real meaning, and the name has nothing to do with the actual function people want it for, hence why people abbreviate it.

In theory, we actually have specific laws saying that you can't use SSN as an identifying number for anything other than a few purposes, such as taxes. For instance, its widespread use as a student ID in college breaks those laws. If you complain, you can get an assigned student ID number instead, and if enough people complain or the right people notice, the university switches away from that. Mine did.

[jbailey.livejournal.com]

I haven't been able to find a place that says what these laws are, beyond that some people may or may not require them. It seems largely up to a company whether they want to or not.

Give it for my health stuff seems particularily weird.

[redgirl.livejournal.com]

it really drives me crazy when people ask for your "sosh"; "name and sosh please"

Eeep! Haven't heard that one yet. If I had, it may have required a bitchslap.

they serve as a reminder that the name "social security" has no real meaning, and the name has nothing to do with the actual function people want it for, hence why people abbreviate it

...YES!!! That's why it bothers me.

[(Anonymous)]

You can actually get a Tax ID number (TIN) and use it the same way.

[jbailey.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I wish you were logged in so you'd see the reply. Is it perfectly replacable for the SSN? I'll need to look at that.

Thanks!

[calla-lily.livejournal.com]

It is pretty terrible that SSNs are attached to everything because it compromises everyone's security/privacy, but it's like that because that's really the only identification tool that we have in the US right now that's guaranteed to be unique for everyone, and that virtually everyone has. It perpetuates because everyone's just so used to it, but if enough people protested, a new system would probably take shape.

By the way, I'm guilty of using the term "sosh." Brevity can be good, and I kinda like to say it, for some reason. :)

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

Jeff, you don't actually have to give your SSN to anyone but a federal agency or someone who is going to give you money. However, many health insurance companies do ask for it. The problem is that while you are legally entitled to refuse to give it, they can also hold up or otherwise delay your application if you don't give it.

A similar example is something that many of us privacy advocates experienced in college regarding student loans. I refused to give the University my SSN (they aren't entitled to it) and they dutifully assigned me a separate number. However, the student loan office (which interfaces with the federal agency which does have a right to ask) got totally confused and was unable to properly handle my student loans because my SSN didn't match my University ID (and I was one of three privacy-focused students in that situation on the whole campus).

A lot of this comes down to state law, too. In Massachusetts, laws were very strictly applied to the insurance industry and there was a box on the forms there to say “assign me my own number, you can't have my SSN”. In New York, when I investigated this carefully, I found that there was no state-level push to protect you from insurance companies refusing to process an application without it. This was technically in violation of Privacy Act of 1974 from what I've read (I am not an expert), but it became clear one would have to file a law suit to get coverage without giving your SSN.

It's a very tricky thing, and I'm not surprised you haven't been able to find clear rules on this. The best I've been able to understand after years of following this issue is that it's federally illegal to require it, but attrition convinces people to give in because it's so hard to fight if the individual state (ala Massachusetts) isn't behind its citizens privacy. I really do think it'll take a law suit from someone who had identity theft due to a health insurance company screwing it up before we get anywhere.

One thing I'd recommend: even if they require you give your SSN on the form to apply, many of the health insurance companies will assign you a different number for use as your actual insurance ID. This is sort of a half way point: they want your SSN on file because their database is designed to require it, but they won't use it as your doctor-facing health insurance ID number. This can really help regarding the privacy and identity theft aspects, because at least only one entity (the health insurance company itself) has access to the SSN, while the doctors' offices, hospitals, etc. get a wholly different number.

As a side note: I just learned last week that in NY state, lawyers have to use the last four digits of their SSN publicly in court as their attorney bar member ID number. And, for those that don't know, the last four digits are the only non-discernible part of the SSN (the first five can be determined by where and when you were born).

Jeff, if you want to discuss this issue more, I'd be happy to talk to you more about it offline. This has kinda been a pet issue of mine for many years and I've read a lot about it.